This is something i,ve been thinking if we step back and look at the league as a business which it is yes a noprofit but still a business. all businesss have to have a working captiol to grow this is soething that if you look at some of the other groups out there have had problems with.I have had the pleasure of being involved in a lot of nonprofits over the years and the most sucusful ones have always kept monies in reserves. they have all invested these monies in cd,s and such. i think that with that thought in mind a local tourny is a good idea but lets not put all the cash we have into that one event and lets build our captiol to the point that mabey we can start sending everyone in the future to large national events.

Very well put...

2001-2004 Alaska Nugget
2005 NDA Team, Medalist, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2006 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2007 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, & ADO
2008 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA

Pointing out errors in a poll is one thing. I am sure it happens with just about every online poll out there. Pointing out that the results are skewed would be appropriate. Basically, any other votes were tossed. Also, who else may have voted multiple times, for either option?

Putting the the poll aside. I think this was a great conversation starter by Dean. Whether things change or not, is a different issue. Are there perhaps other points of view, probably.

My two cents are that you both had good points. It is unreasonable to assume with rising costs and lower pull tab sales that all qualified (I am not on of these) would be sent to Vegas. But on the flip side, how many people are actually going to be able to take advantage of the $200 reimbursement.

I am sure this was a tough decision for the board to work out. Maybe those who are not in a position to take advantage of the $200 be allowed to decide if this is carried over to a future season, or maybe have it put into a Medalist Tourney. If the tourney option got enough investment, maybe those who are not currently throwing Medalist could pay a "ranking" fee to participate in the tourney? This is all just speculation.

My final thought is just that there may be other Medalist players from this past year who feel disenfranchised by the boards decision. While you can not please everyone, you can make them fee a part o the process by talking with them.

Thanks for letting me express my to cents.

Here’s the great flaw of internet polls, people can always find a way around things to make it appear to how ever they want.

Who ever works for Midland Walwyn & Merrill Lynch / based out of New York, New York has taken it upon them selves to vote almost daily, boosting the numbers and making their voice heard loud and clear.

IP Address: 199.43.48.*** (seen in the voting record over 10 times

We either have a huge following from this company in Alaska darts or some one likes to see their point in big numbers. Either way, it’s amazing that 36 out of 53 people would have voted since in the past the numbers have never reflected such an interest.

Either way, I think this poll has done its damage. I’m locking it and shutting it down.

“Dupes”

2001-2004 Alaska Nugget
2005 NDA Team, Medalist, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2006 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2007 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, & ADO
2008 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA

Yes darters pay 10.00, but only 3.00 of that goes towards payouts. The other 7.00 is vend alaska's. The only amount for payout is 5.00 a head a night.

2001-2004 Alaska Nugget
2005 NDA Team, Medalist, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2006 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2007 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, & ADO
2008 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA

My figure of $200 is actually what you pay Dupes... ($10 x 20 weeks). I am speaking of what the darters pay. $40 ($2 in the envelope x 20 weeks). Arguing the $5 per week coming back is only 1/2 of the argument. That is why I brought up the gaming account.

$5 a week in division Super A (sunday) provides $1200
$5 a week in division BB (sunday) provides $800
$5 a week in division CC(sunday) provides $1200
$5 a week in division B (monday)provides $800
$5 a week in division CC (monday) provides $800
$5 a week in division C (monday) provides $800

That totals $5,600

Gaming you said is $7,000 (although another source today said over $17k again today)

That's $12,600 according to what you are telling me.

There are 29 teams (58 people)... 58 x 200[the proposed vegas re-imbursement] = $11,600

This makes perfect sense that you don't have the money to fly everyone to Vegas and pay their entry fees. I am not arguing any of your points... sorry if I sound frustrated... I don't think that you get it.

The expense of going to Vegas to get the $200 is hardly worth it for MOST of the players. I'm glad you're going... good luck. MOST players will not pay the expense.
The board is hoarding MOST of the money from MOST of the players. The benefit is supposed to be for MOST of the players, not the few that are going to Vegas.

You are right... the board should not be promising things they can't guarantee. I am trying to have a solution rather than complete disapointment for MOST of the darters. What is wrong with me voting my $200 for a tournament? We could still have people going to Vegas or not. I will be surprised if even 20 people go to Vegas under the circumstances.

If just 30 people vote their $200 for a tournament... that's $6,000 before even charging an entry fee or dropping a quarter.

I'm voicing the concern that the board did not brainstorm enough... and appear to be protecting the money for next year... No one has addressed what is happening with the money for this year yet? If 20 people go, you guys fork out $4,000 of the $12,600. If this is the case, why is Hallie putting up his own money for our little divisional playoff shoot? He shouldn't have to, in this example you have a surplus of $8,600!

Bottom line... if MOST players feel screwed, have fun getting them to come back. I saw what a single elimination tournament did to steel tips a few years back (infamous Snow Goose one)... this should be fun to see players footing a large cost to go to one in Vegas.

Gaming money is a weak 7k. That's all that's there. There's no way that there's enough money to pay for flights & entry fees, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, in the past, a large amount of that money came straight out of Hallie's pocket. I for one sure do remember hearing that every one is getting a trip, but it's time to pony up, so where's the money going to come from and who's going to pay it? See the last 2 years, Hallie has struggled with the sending teams to Medalist Las Vegas, one year not sending anyone and another year forking out money himself.

Here's the skinny, the membership elected a board, the board came to this conclusion, I think there's even talk in their notes of doing a tournament with funds too. I could be mistaken.

The only way players next year would benefit and get tickets to Las Vegas (which I'm trying to show them that they need to never promise such a thing again) is if every one started playing the rippies. I for one am going, just like i did 2 years ago without ticket or money from the PJ's league what so ever.

Question though "Now the league may only get $100 of the $200 that I spent on quarters never mind the $44 in league fees that each of us spent." where do you get your figures from? I spend $12.00 a night, $10.00 in the machine ($3.00 is payout, the rest goes to Vend Alaska) and the $2.00 in the envelope. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all together, the fees are $240.00 (12 x 20=240). I don't recall getting charged the $15.00 player fee. Out of that money, only $5.00 per night is payable towards the payouts. So that being said $5.00 x 20 = $100.00. How do you figure $200.00?

Now don't get me wrong, Cash Payouts are great. I ran a league out of the Peanut Farm, it was Trios, and we actually paid $5.00 in the envelope. After the forfeits and such, payout was about 2000.00. But that's not this PJ's board ran league, it was ran by myself.

Let's say they do have a tournament locally, do you really think the board won't set their own brackets like they did 2 years ago and re-rate players on a whim? More than likely you won't be playing with your partner that you want anyways.

Bottom line, a heated topic with lots of people showing interest. Best thing to do is remember who's on the board, and elect a different board next year. Sucks for those that don't agree, but that's why they're elected, to make the decisions and run the league.

2001-2004 Alaska Nugget
2005 NDA Team, Medalist, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2006 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2007 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, & ADO
2008 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA

Air travel is $540, if you are splitting a room the cost for 4 days is $196, fine leave the food and drinks out of it, "dances & gambling" as you put it were never included in this, signing up for the events is $190.

Mike say whatever you want but we have always gotten an air ticket and our entry fees paid. I realize that air tickets are higher. I don't expect you or Vend Alaska, or Hallie to pay anyone's entire trip. Let's look at the forest through the trees though...

Just the ticket and the entry fees (that used to be paid for) is $736. My point earlier (without the "dances and "gambling" as you put it) is that the board has so reduced the payout ($200 if we go), not as many are going to go. We were told that we were getting a free ticket for shooting in the league. Now the league may only get $100 of the $200 that I spent on quarters never mind the $44 in league fees that each of us spent. Okay, I get all that. It was reported that there was actually $17k in the account. Is this wrong? What is the balance? Did the board consider a poll to dart shooters?

I am simply stating that the solution that was envoked will keep a lot of players from going, and keep the bank account in tact.

Secondly if very little is removed from the account, does that mean next years players get the benefit of the current league of players being short. I would think that instead of throwing the bone ($200) to us 3,000 miles away, why not have a great tournament here. I thought the benefit of the rippies was for the darters?

With fuel charges going higher, a lapse in the rippie permit (lack of income), and lower payouts in Las Vegas, why not do something better right here? I would personally rather support Hallie here locally and have good competition right here, and especially if we can't afford to send everyone. It doesn't help that Medalist has changed the bracket limits so that no one in our division anyway can shoot with their partner. It also doesn't help that Medalist changed their events to SINGLE elimination. I'll bet we could put on a better event. I can't see how Hallie couldn't have a better event at this point.

MD

There's not 15k in the bank account.....

The fact that there's players running around expecting all this paid for is really silly. Would I like every thing paid for, yeah. But at $5.00 ($3.00 in quarters & $2.00 in the envelope)a night that goes towards payouts, it's only $100.00 per person for this season. The fact that anyone counts the of $7.00 in quarters is just bad math. It's vend alaska's way to cover their operating costs and the league fees.

Keep in mind, I'm not on the Board (2 years ago I was linched by em). I just like to see money straight and squared away in an open manor. Counting your drinks, food, dances and gambling into an equation is just false.

2001-2004 Alaska Nugget
2005 NDA Team, Medalist, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2006 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, ADO, & Alaska Nugget
2007 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA, & ADO
2008 NDA Team, Medalist, NDA Doubles, ADA

Submitted by Mean Dean on May 7, 2008 - 12:21pm.
I can remember when everyone got a ticket and their entry fees paid for... then we played for a hotel room.

Now we must pay $190 for entry fees, $540 for airfare, $196 for 4 nights stay in Las Vegas, avg. $200 food, $200 for drinks... totaling $1,326 to not be able to shoot with your partner in a single elimination tournament (no longer double elimination) to collect $200. I guess not renewing the rippie permit hurt the bank account. This is a great solution to ensure the bank account doesn't get tapped, and this years participants in medalist are guranteed to be screwed, for the benefit of next years participants.

I figure the winners of the PJ's playoffs will pay $100 in drinks and quarters... vs the payouts... terrible. I guess soft tips is dying a rapid death of screw the player.

Take $15k of that bank account and host a damn good soft tip tournament, instead of screwing us.